If you've ever wondered what historians do on their vacations well......here's an example of where I spent one of mine. There was no way I was missing the opening of the Arabian Horse Center in Denver in 1984. For me this included touring the facility, looking at old documents, attending the educational seminars (Ed Bogucki's on bronze-making, Laura O'Hara's on books for instance), and meeting lots of wonderful people! Naturally, I brought along my trusty tape recorder, a treasured gift from my father, to keep a record of this great event. This interview was first published on my email list Arabhorse-L in 1998. It is on the W. K. Kellogg Arabian Horse Library's website for educational purposes. Melissa Paul, 8/5/08
>>> Posting number 20908, dated 25 Feb 1998 20:37:10
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:37:10 -0800
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Sender: Arabian Horse Discussion List <ARABHORSE-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From: Melissa Paul <tessie@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: AHRA Interview, History, Stud Books, Etc. (LONG!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I thought list members might be interested in this. It is the transcript
of an interview done by me (I taped it and did the transcription) and Jean
Campbell (of Arabians magazine) with long-time AHRA employees Nellie
Bayley DeHooghe and J. J. Janeczko. It was done on September 23, 1984 at
the Arabian Horse Center in Denver Colorado during the dedication of the
Center.
Anything I had to add for clarity is designated by brackets []. I did
this in cases where someone in the interview pointed at one of the others
in the interview, for instance.
Nellie Bayley DeHooghe=NB
J.J. Janeczko=JJJ
Jean Campbell=JC
Melissa Paul=MP
Melissa
Tessie@netcom.com
_____________________
MP : When did you both join the Registry?
NB : In 1944. I was there until 1967.
MP : You were there from 1944 to 1967?
NB : 23 years.
JC : That was when the Registry was in Chicago?
NB : Yes.
JC : You said it moved in 1969?
NB : Yes.
JC : So you left the Registry 2 years before it moved?
NB : I did.
JC : You came in?
JJJ: 1959.
JC : So you were together there a long time?
NB : That's right.
NB : We were friends before that.
JC : Did you live in Chicago then?
NB : Yes, we both did.
MP : When did you leave?
JJJ: I left in December 1977, so I say 1978.
JC : So you moved out here?
JJJ: Yes, I did. That is the reason I'm here. I moved with the
Registry.
JC : Ok. You still live in the area?
JJJ: Yes.
JC : Down the road an hour, or where do you live?
JJJ: About a 1/2 hours drive on I-25. And it's interesting because when
I moved here I wanted to be located as close to the Registry as I
possibly could, and I did find a spot, and it only took me ten
minutes to get there. Now, going the same route, if they were to
be in that same spot it would take me about 1/2 hour or so because
the city has grown and the traffic has increased.
MP : So what did you both do?
JJJ: Everything.
NB : I was the resident officer.
JC : What was the structure of it at that time? Was there one employee
and you?
NB : I was the employee.
JC : That was the only employee they had?
NB : Yes.
JC : They had a board?
NB : Yes, we had a board just like now.
MP : So there was just a board and you?
NB : Yes.
JC : How did you get your day-to-day--or did you just run it?
NB : I ran it.
NB : Once a year we had board meetings and we had a President, of
course, of the board and occasionally, if there were anything to
discuss with me, he would discuss it with me and so on.
MP : So day-to-day you were by yourself?
NB : Oh, sure.
JC : You made all the decisions?
NB : All the decisions, based upon the rules and regulations. They were
marvelous.
JC : What actually was the Registry doing at that time? What was their
function?
NB : Their function was to register purebred Arabian horses and transfer
them.
JC : So that was all you did? That was all you had to get involved in?
NB : That was all.
JC : Of course, I don't know if that is any different today.
NB : No, well...
JJJ: You did many things, occasional pedigrees.
NB : Oh, we did pedigrees, anything having to do with them. And, of
course, lots of correspondence, telephone calls and that kind of thing.
JC : Answering questions and so on?
NB : Yes, and straightening out registrations and things like that.
JC : Long, long before blood-typing and any of that business?
NB : Yes, we didn't start that.
MP : You didn't do any inspecting of imported horses?
NB : Yes, imported horses were inspected, but we didn't do that. We
would have one of the members of the board inspect, or two members,
perhaps, of the board would inspect the horses that were brought in.
JC : So if somebody wanted to import horses they would call you?
NB : Yes, find out what was necessary, and what the requirements were,
and what stud books we recognized and so on. See, we recognized fewer
stud books at that time. Mr. Harris was on the board when I came. He
was President of the board. The Harris of Harris Trust. That's his
picture up there.
JC : Oh my goodness he looks like an old-timer doesn't he?
NB : Yes.
JJJ: He frowned down on us many times.
NB : When I went there his office, in the Harris Trust, was maybe on the
5th floor, I've forgotten. And then he gave us space--the Registry
didn't have the money to pay rent. So he provided us with space for
the Registry for the first space that we had in Chicago.
JC : How long were you there with him?
NB : Oh, I don't know, don't remember. We moved to... We were in about
four locations in Chicago. We kept needing more space. I don't know
how long we were there--quite a few years.
JC : Was it--could you see that it was growing even then--nothing like
now, I suppose?
NB : Oh, it grew. Well, when I came the thing I was hired to do was to
do a stud book. And we started with registration number 1 and went
through 2900--that's all there were in the year 1944, 2900 horses
registered. Now there are nearly 300,000. So there were 2900 and...
JC : Was it up to you to research and find those horses?
NB : Oh yes.
JC : Assign them numbers?
NB : Oh no, they had numbers. All those horses had numbers. They had
been registered.
JC : That had to go back then to the ones...?
NB : The very first ones, the ones that were imported for the World's
Fair. Number 1 was a horse from the World's Fair, Chicago World's
Fair.
JC : And so you went back to the Jockey Club and picked up the horses?
NB : No, the Registry had existed before it came to Chicago.
MP : It was in 1908 wasn't it?
NB : Yes, it came to Chicago maybe in....
JC : But it never had an office, right?
NB : Well, they had an office of some kind, somebody's business or
someplace like that. A Mr. Brown was President for a long time.
But they had....
MP : Bush-Brown or W. R. Brown?
NB : I can't even remember. And his business, he had a very fine
business, and it was failing during the depression or something like
that. And he said to Mr. Harris would you take over responsibility
for the Registry. You see, it started with just a handful of men,
originally. And I think they had their first meeting in Washington,
D.C., but this was long before I came to the Registry. And it was
all, I think, pretty much on a voluntary basis. But they had
members, and members were permitted to vote. But Mr. Harris, when
he took it, said well, I would have to organize it the way I would
want it or I wouldn't be responsible for it. So, it was then that
the board was the only thing that had any vote at all, the members
of the board.
MP : That was Albert Harris?
NB : Yes, Albert W. Harris.
MP : So, how did people originally become members?
NB : If you owned a horse you had a privilege of joining as a member.
It was very inexpensive, ten dollars. I think five dollars a year
dues.
MP : Weren't there some life members back then?
NB : Yes, there were some life members.
MP : I remember reading something about a $100 life membership.
NB : Yes, that's right. And there were some of those people still
living when I came to the Registry. They were life members.
MP : But that was discontinued, that program?
NB : Yes, when I was there, there were no life members added.
JC : Then when you came along later it was just to share the workload?
It had just simply gotten to be too much?
JJJ: Yes, then there were two of us.
JC : Then you two did everything?
NB : Yes.
NB : Well, when the men that were on the board when I came there, from
the time Mr. Harris reorganized it, paid their own expenses, they also
paid $100 a year for membership. Other people paid $10. But they
paid $100. So, they were contributing, which was really very nice.
MP : So who were the Presidents when you worked there?
NB : Mr. Harris was President for a period of time, and then Mr. Babson,
then Mr. Gainey.
MP : What were the differences between their leadership styles?
NB : Pretty much the same in that they came in and were sort of tutored
under Mr. Harris and then under Mr. Babson and so on, and it was the
purpose of the Registry, and the rules and regulations remained just
static and were.... So it was an unchanging thing and you had five
directors, and it stayed just constant like that and they were very
much of one mind, and it was really good--you could depend upon
just what things were going to be like.
MP : They didn't re-elect the Director or President each year?
NB : Each year they did.
MP : Oh they did? So, I didn't know whether it was an appointment and
then it was for life or..?
NB : No.
MP : But they were reaffirmed each year?
NB : Yes.
JC : But who voted for them, just the board itself, right?
NB : The directors voted for themselves, that's right.
JC : So, if they wanted to bring some, if somebody wanted to retire and
they wanted to bring somebody else in--why they would just...?
NB : They would decide upon whom they wanted. They would invite
somebody to be on the board. They had five governing members--five
directors and five governing members, I think. The governing members
didn't have a vote, but they were really learning for a number of
years, and then, most often, when they wanted a director they
picked him from the board of governing members.
MP : So it started out as sort of a group of people in the beginning, and
they were the board?
NB : Yes.
MP : And then as people left through whatever reason--died or
something--they would just invite someone in? That is how it worked?
NB : Yes. They always tried to invite people of caliber and people that
were loyal and all kinds of things. And so it pretty much stayed very
much the same.
MP : So once you were invited in that was--you were in?
NB : Almost without exception.
MP : But you didn't have to be--the other directors didn't have to vote
for you every year?
NB : No, as far as I was concerned I was hired and that was it.
JC : Can you see a difference between the group of people or the kinds
of people who had horses then and their interest in them for what you
see now?
NB : Oh yes, it's different with many of them. It was in the hands of a
few people who had money and then it became where there were more
horses and then there were horses for sale and then most anyone
could buy an Arabian horse and it became a family affair, and it
was very nice, and the people who had the horses were very close
to them--it wasn't a managership or a trainer or anything like
that, you know. It was a very close-knit thing as far as the
horses were concerned. Of course, now it is quite a business, and
many of the people, I guess, don't even see their horses.
JC : Do you know when I look at the people who are on the governing
board I feel like it is still almost a trusteeship with those people.
NB : Yes, it was like that.
JC : It is not--I wonder if the people who serve on the board--if that
tradition hasn't passed down even today.
NB : I think so.
JC : There is lots of business going on and one of the things in my mind
that distinguishes this even from other things that I go to all the
time is that this is an entirely different group of people than
you see at the Nationals and the Arabian Hrose Fair and so on.
And there is far less promotion, push, that kind of stuff, and far
more a feeling of closeness with their horses and with each other
and feeling of responsibility to the breed.
NB : Yes.
JC : I mean a true feeling of responsibility, a personal commitment of
responsibility.
NB : I really think this is very true, still true. We were so glad to
go, you know, to that 30-year luncheon. This is where we knew a
lot of dedicated people.
JC : Did you see a lot of people there that you had known way back then?
NB : Yes, many of them we didn't know by face, but we knew them by name
and also by correspondence and by telephone and that kind of thing,
and so many of them would remember some little incident where they
felt that they were well served, you know, and where you helped
them, and things like that. It was sort of a nice feeling.
MP : When did the Registry computerize on any type of computer?
NB : Just the last year they were in Chicago, Jo?
JJJ: Yes.
MP : So everything was manual before then?
JJJ: Yes.
JJJ: We did everything.
JJJ: Certificates were typed, by hand.
NB : And as we hired more girls, I think there were 7 or 8 when I left,
they were as dedicated as we were to the thing, and it worked out
beautifully.
JJJ: And what worked out very well then that it was each girl, each
employee, knew every phase of the job, the entire Registry. So, she
could do any part of it. She could check, she could research, she
could type the certificates. She knew everything which made it
very nice for vacations, for illnesses. You never ran short of
people because everybody kenw what they had to do. Of course,
they doubled up, but they knew. And they were more interested
because they saw the beginning and the end of everything.
MP : Who was the head of the Registry when you went in?
JJJ: She was [Nellie].
NB : When I came in? Mr. Harris.
JJJ: Mr. Babson.
MP : So Mr. Babson hired you?
JJJ: No, Nellie hired me.
NB : I did the hiring.
JC : You did everything.
MP : Have you seen the digitizing?
NB : We were very interested in that.
JJJ: We saw that this morning. I can't believe it.
JC : How did you do it? Did they, at that time, not have
markings at first?
NB : Oh yes, we always had markings.
JC : But they were written out, they weren't drawn out?
NB : They were drawn.
JJJ: The owners would draw on the figures.
NB : On the application.
JJJ: And then send them in. And then we usually wrote up the
description.
MP : So how long did processing usually take on an application?
NB : Well, I'll tell you what we did on an application. Maybe it took
20 minutes to check through for accuracy, didn't it? I don't
think it took a half-hour did it?
JJJ: No.
NB : Maybe 20 minutes, and then when you were typing you typed the name
card, didn't we--we typed 2 name cards--we typed a number card
which bore all the information.
JJJ: And if it was a transfer we'd have to remove the ownership from one
card and put it on the new owner's card and show the date of
transfer.
JC : So you had it all on card files?
JJJ: Yes.
JC : Did you set that up originally?
NB : No, it was set up by Mr. Brown, most of it.
JC : So you just took that over, and it was already in place the way it
was done?
NB : It was really wonderfully done, we had a cross reference. If you
knew the name of a horse we could find you all the information about
it. If you knew the name of the owner we could find it. If you
knew the number of the horse we could find it. They were
filed by number and they were filed by name and so on. And so
when the girls were typing they typed one card from another, and
then compared with the original, and so if the last card was
right you knew that the others were. So that saved all that
checking of all the extra things.
MP : But how long would it take for someone to get their completed
application after they'd sent it in?
NB : Oh, completed application? Almost immediately. Many of them came
in at the end of the year and, oh, I think we always had everything
cleared up through February, didn't we? Then we started on the stud
book?
JJJ: Yes.
MP : But you could do many certificates in a day?
JJJ: Yes.
JC : Of course, there probably weren't that many to do?
NB : No, there weren't.
JJJ: That's true.
JC : Did they have stallion reports at that time?
NB : Yes, finally, not in the beginning, but we had stallion reports
before I left.
JC : Was it your opportunity to make suggestions back to the board on
some of those things?
NB : Oh yes, always. This is how it functioned. Because I was the
person that was working with it and had the firsthand information
about any problem that needs solving through a rule or regulation
or anything like that, you know, and....
JC : So did you have a hand in the blessed stallion reports?
NB : I don't know who came up with the idea of the stallion report. I
don't really know.
JJJ: I don't remember.
NB : That wasn't my idea, but I don't know who came up with that.
MP : Did you have a second copy of these papers anywhere else so that in
case of fire--was there any sort of protection for them?
NB : Oh, we finally made, had microfilm, and we had it at the Harris
Bank, or Trust.
JJJ: In a safety deposit box.
NB : That's right.
MP : About when was that?
NB : I don't know when we started that, after you came, didn't we? Jo
and I decided that that would be a good idea.
JJJ: So it had to be in the sixties. Sometime in the sixties?
NB : I think so.
JC : Were there any personalities you remember particularly, or instances?
JJJ: I can't think of anybody offhand.
NB : You mean owners or something?
JJJ: Check with us tomorrow.
JC : What was, for instance, Mr. Babson like as an individual?
NB : He was probably the person that I enjoyed most in my association
with the Registry. He was, oh, very, he acted as though he were a
Scotchman--a man of few words, and he always said it was easier for
him to say no than to say yes, and sometimes he was sorry he had
said no because he didn't want to change his mind and, but he
had a business in Chicago and I had been told that he was a very
demanding person and a difficult person to work for, for that
reason. He was a perfectionist and very capable himself. But
because he had an intelligent wife and an intelligent
daughter, he got the idea that women were very intelligent,
even more so than men, so he treated me with a great deal of
respect. He was wonderful. He would come in, I always laugh
about this, he would come in, maybe once a week, he'd
drop in and say to me "anything of interest?", and if someone
was having an interesting problem or something, you know, I would
tell him about it and he'd say "how are you going to handle it?",
and of course, the rules and regulations determine how you handle
it, and I would tell him, and once in a while he would
think it was pretty sticky, and he'd say to me "would you like
Ted to look at it?", and Ted was his, Ted Tieken his son-in-law,
who is a very brilliant lawyer. And I would say "well, I'd
really rather not because Ted isn't familiar with the
Registry, he really isn't familiar with the rules and
regulations." So he'd say "fine." That's all. And one time
he said to me "you know someday you're going to make a mistake and
when you do it will be a big one." He was always very nice to me.
MP : Do you remember something about Mr. Harris?
NB : Mr. Harris I enjoyed too. That was my early years with the
Registry, and he was down the hall from us and I was alone in the
afternoons and before he would go home he would walk down and talk
and what he liked to talk about was to reminisce about horses that
he'd known. You see, he knew Mr. Kellogg and that got him started
with Arabian horses, and he'd tell you about lots of horses and
lots of people and things that he'd done and all. And so that
he'd say "Mr. So-And-So had a black stallion, I don't remember
his name, or anything", and while he was talking I'm
looking in the owner's file for Mr. So-And-So's name. By the
time he gets through telling me I'd say "was his name So-And-So?".
He'd say "that's it." And he sometimes could tell you that a
horse was by such-and-such a stallion and we could find it
immediately too if it was by a certain stallion. So, he was--just
every afternoon came to visit like that. He was good, a nice person.
JC : Was the Registry almost a passion with those people?
NB : Oh yes, they weren't in it for any gain or anything. It was
strictly because they believed in the horse and wanted to preserve
them by preserving records. And it was a nice situation for me.
JC : Who preceded Mr. Harris, do you know?
NB : Mr. Brown, but that was before the Registry came to Chicago.
JC : Where was it then?
NB : In New Berlin, New Hampshire.
JC : Is that where he was from?
NB : Yes.
JC : So, it was wherever he was?
NB : Yes, New Berlin, New Hampshire.
JC : Was that the case before--the Registry records with whoever
was in charge?
NB : Well, that's all there was when Mr. Brown was in.
JC : The records were with the governing director?
NB : Yes, that's the way it would be.
JC : Did he have it from the time it was created?
NB : Almost. Someone else had it for a month or two or a few months, I
read in the history of the thing, and then Mr. Brown had it.
Then it came to Mr. Harris.
JC : What was Mr. Gainey like?
NB : Do yo know Mr. Gainey's son?
JC : Yes.
NB : Mr. Gainey was an extrovert, whereas Mr. Babson and Mr. Harris were
introverts. So, he was far more outgoing, you know, and glad-handing
and all that kind of thing. But for me to work with he was very,
very fine, very fine.
JC : He wasn't from Chicago though was he?
NB : He was from Minnesota.
JC : So, you wouldn't have seen him as often?
NB : No.
JC : And he was the one there when you came?
NB : Yes.
NB : Oh, he was as close as the telephone, though, always. If he wanted
to get in touch with you or anything.
JC : Was that entirely different then when all of a sudden the Registry
was operated by somebody who was out-of-town?
NB : No, there was no difference, no difference at all. Because Mr.
Babson was still on the board.
JC : Would he still check in with you?
NB : Oh yes, it didn't matter. Someone told Mr. Gainey a funny little
story, I got this from Mr. Babson, who doesn't talk very much, but
he... Mr. Gainey said why don't you come up and see my horses.
So, he thought maybe he would. He went up to see themn and
along the way he said, "Henry how do you get along with Nellie?",
and he said "I give her her head." That's what you say about
horses. So he came back and told me that. Someone had said that
I was difficult to get along with and so Mr. Gainey sort of wanted
to know whether I was or not. So, that's how I happened to ask him.
JC : Why did you ever apply for that job in the first place? Was it
just to find a job, or did somebody recommend you, or did you just
find it, or did you have horses?
NB : No, no. Well, I've always been with horses though, but I didn't
know anything about Arabian horses, but I had been teaching and I
then went into business, and I didn't like the business world at all.
That's where Jo and I met, in business. I didn't like the way
vice-presidents were sacrificed and one person climbed on
top of another. So, I didn't think I wanted a thing to do
with the business world. And I didn't know what, and I
went to an agency and said I wanted something interesting.
I didn't know whether it was travel or what I wanted to do. She
called me one day and said I have a job maybe you'd like.
She told me about it and I thought, well, maybe people are
different to deal with and to be with and so on and that's
the way it was. No matter how hard-headed businessmen they were,
when it was the horses it was different. Mr. Selby of Selby Shoe
was on the board at that time. Let's see, who else.
Mr. Van Vleet was on the board then.
JC : Who?
NB : Mr. Van Vleet, Senior. General Dickinson was on the board. Do you
know Mrs. Fleming, who is on the Trust's board? She is General
Dickinson's daughter.
MP : Peggy Fleming?
NB : Yes.
JC : They had *Roda.
NB : Yes.
JC : I would have loved to have talked to her.
NB : I had dinner with her last night.
JC : Is she still operating that farm?
NB : She still has some horses of her father's stock.
JC : You know, when I think about those old people and you read their
names all the time, General Dickinson and some of those others, I get
the feeling that they must have been, all of them, very
self-sufficient, very forceful individuals, very powerful
personalities, every one of them in their own right.
NB : That's right.
JC : And you wonder how on earth would they ever have gotten along.
NB : Mr. Harris was quite a catalyst with those men, and he's the one
who gave them the ideals and who wrote up the rules and regulations
and presented them to them for acceptance, and things like that,
and he wanted to run it very much like the bank, like you
were transfering certificates, you know, and that they
should be as protected and as accurate and so on. And he
wanted a board, he didn't feel that the general membership
should vote because people were of too many minds, and
they really don't know, and it can become political,
and so on, and he wanted to keep all of that out of it.
So, he had a board. And some people were unhappy because
the outs always want to be in, you know, that
kind of thing. But they did a wonderful job. And it was
done at a very, very reasonable rate. For example, the
most we charged for a registration was $10 and transfers were
$5, and the Registry paid its way.
MP : But you only had the one employee then?
NB : Yes, but even when we had more, see we.... Oh you asked about how
it was growing. It grew about 30% each year. Now that's a lot to
absorb, 30%, over many, many years. Up until the time I left it was
still running like that. So, that's how we increased.
MP : So how many employees did they have when you left?
NB : Seven or 8, I think.
JJJ: It was 8, Nellie.
MP : How about in 1978, when you left, how may were there?
JJJ: In 1978?
MP : Just a guess, here at the Registry.
JJJ: Something like 37 or 38.
JC : And so when you left then you took over?
JJJ: No, Ward Howland replaced Nellie.
MP : So, exactly what were your titles?
NB : Well, I was the resident officer really because if someone would
call in, you know, like I do too and like to talk to the top,
like to the President or someone and they knew that Mr. Gainey
was President--"well I want to talk to Mr. Gainey", and I
would say Mr. Gainey is not in residence, he's in Minnesota--
"and well could you give me his telephone number so I could
call him there", I said yes I could but he has no
records, and if you want to ask me questions I will
attempt to answer whatever you want and then if you want to
talk to Mr. Gainey you can reach him.
MP : So, you were the resident officer?
NB : Yes.
MP : But you both weren't resident officers?
NB : No. You had a title, didn't you Jo?
JJJ: I didn't get a title until 1975.
NB : She was my assistant, really.
JJJ: I became administrative assistant, and it didn't mean anything,
nothing changed. That's when Ward Howland left and Ralph Clark took
over.
NB : But really you were administrative assistant right from the
beginning.
JJJ: We were too busy really working to death to have a title.
I joined Nellie in 1967, and they computerized in 1968,
and we moved in 1969, so you see those three years were
changes, changes, changes, changes. And when they decided
to move to Denver there were eight girls on the staff.
There were a total of ten--the eight girls, and Ward and I.
NB : Just think Jo left, the only girl, she went to Denver, the only
girl, and they had to be hired and trained.
JJJ: Ward and I were the only ones to come out here.
MP : Did you say in 1968 they computerized?
JJJ: Yes, it was a year after you left. We didn't have our own
computer. We sent the work out.
MP : Still, that's early to be computerized.
JJJ: Yes.
JC : Did the other board members ever contact you and call you
and talk to you?
NB : Oh sure.
JJJ: They called Nellie, but they didn't call me.
NB : They called to say that Mr. So-And-So or Mrs. So-And-So
came to see us about such-and-such a problem that we're
having at the Registry or having with the horses or
something and what's the situation.
MP : Did you go to shows over the years at all?
NB : Yes, I preferred to stay away from shows because I wanted to remain
completely impartial. But I did go. I went to Scottsdale
and a few places like that, you know. At the first Chicago
show, we were in Chicago and went to the first race that
they ever had with the racing horses in the Chicago area.
MP : Do you remember who won?
NB : Can't remember, can you?
JJJ: No, no, I don't remember at all.
MP : When was the Scottsdale show you went to? Was it recent, or
was it a long time ago that you went?
NB : Probably just before I left I would imagine. I think you
went to more shows than I, didn't you Jo?
JJJ: I went to [?] Scottsdale shows, but I haven't been to any recent
ones.
JC : The shows back then would have been a lot smaller.
MP : You probably wouldn't recognize Scottsdale now.
JC : About 2,000 horses.
NB : Isn't that something.
NB : Are they still showing in the same place?
JC : Yes.
MP : You never went to the Nationals?
NB : Did they even have Nationals before I left?
JJJ: I believe they did.
MP : They started in the 1950's.
NB : I don't think I ever went to a Nationals. I can't remember.
JC : Would you have been working when Jay Stream headed up the
Arabian Horse Society? That was strictly for the
promotion of the horse.
JJJ: Yes, they advertised with the three little heads. I was
with the Registry then, but I wasn't involved with the Society.
That was separate and apart from the Registry.
JC : Do you remember when they did that?
JJJ: Yes, but I couldn't tell you what year it was.
NB : The reason they did that would be that they wanted to keep the
Registry just having records--registrations and transfers.
So that you wouldn't, employees and everyone else,
wouldn't get involved in too many other things. So
they encouraged International, for example, to do
publicity or the races or whatever else they wanted to, but
they didn't want to get the Registry into anything where
it would look as though it were political. That would be
why the Society would be separate. Then the Registry
probably said we'll help you financilally, but we don't
want to be part of it.
JJJ: Nellie and I had a little policy that wasn't included in the
rules and regulations.
NB : What was that?
JJJ: We wouldn't hire anybody that owned an Arabian horse.
NB : Yes, isn't that interesting.
MP : That is a policy, an official one, now isn't it?
NB : No.
JJJ: I don't think so. That went by the board because Nellie
and I were very firm on that. We felt that person would
spend more time checking out pedigrees. Also, the
personal assets of people--how many horses they
had and who they sold it to, just personal information
which we didn't think should be made public, and it
could have been by an employee.
NB : If you were working on a registration, and you see a
horse's name that you recognize, and you think, oh, I
want to see who owned that horse before, and you get
your mind on that you're really not on this other
which is record keeping. We found it worked a lot
better if they had no interest in horses.
JC : So, when you went out to look for a girl you just went
out for a girl that could type and had some smarts?
NB : Yes.
JC : And then you trained her?
NB : Yes, and it was quite a lot of training, but it worked
real well, kept them very interested to do the whole job.
The fact that we could do whatever they had to do made it
very easy for us to know whether someone was producing or
wasn't producing, and they knew that we knew, so it was all
very easy.
MP : Who designed the papers? Were those the ones that had been
originally used when Brown was in charge?
NB : Who signed the papers?
MP : No, who designed the original certificates?
NB : I have no idea. The ones that were in when Brown was
there had a green horse or a green something on it and
then soon after I came there we designed the one with
the George Ford Morris horse on it. It was supposed to
be a composite of an Arabian.
MP : It was a standing horse?
NB : Yes.
MP : So, you were in on that?
NB : Yes.
MP : Did you do any of the drawing or any of the design?
NB : No. We had it done out. He [Morris] did the drawing
We got permission to use that, but he had done that for
Mr. Selby. Selby had paid him to do that for him and
then permitted us to use that, if I can remember,
because the Registry didn't have all that much money in
the beginning. It's fantastic that they talk in
terms of millions now isn't it?
JC : It's amazing.
JJJ: Mind boggling.
JC : But now they've even got people on the road. They must
have started that when you were there?
NB : Yes, they did.
JJJ: We had field representatives, and then we had freeze
markers. And now, I understand, they're combining them.
MP : Who decided on the printing of the stud books? Who decided
on the blue color, small size, and the gold lettering?
NB : We did in the office. Mr. Babson was the one that came
into the office when we were going to do the stud book.
It was Mr. Harris talking about it and Mr. Babson and so on.
And he came up with the idea of the progeny section of
the stud book.
MP : Who, Mr. Babson?
NB : Yes, Mr. Babson came up with that idea.
JJJ: Did he decide on the color of the book too, Nellie?
NB : No, we did that.
JJJ: Of course, it would have to be blue.
NB : If I did it, it would have to be blue. And the format
we decided upon too.
MP : Is this the first Arabian function either of you have
been to for a while?
NB : Oh no. We were here last March.
JJJ: It was at the Marriot. It wasn't really a function as
this is, but it was sort of a party in honor of Ted Tieken.
And we were invited because we were old timers, I guess.
That was pleasant.
NB : That was nice. Of course, we knew everyone that was at that
affair. I don't know how many but it was quite a large group,
wasn't it?
JJJ: Yes.
MP : Well, how did this look then as far as completion goes?
What did it look like?
NB : Oh, just like it did to everyone else.... Isn't this just
amazing here?
MP : The one funny comment that I heard about this building
before I had seen it was "but it isn't white."
JJJ: Everything is done in very good taste.
MP : It is very nice and relaxing, and it's dignified.
NB : It is like the Registry has always been. Like Mr. Harris
intended that it should be and Mr. Brown before him.
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This page was updated on Friday, 14 November 2008
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